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[1:34] <Kitty> hi there
[1:35] <Corsac> yo
[1:35] <Kitty> am trying to find info on the touchbook, mainly on the cpu
[1:36] <Kitty> can anyone point me at details of the cpu spec ?
[1:36] <Corsac> that's an arm omap3
[1:36] <Kitty> at what speed ?
[1:36] <Corsac> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Touch_Book_specs
[1:36] <Corsac> 600MHz
[1:37] <Kitty> can you carry spare batteries for the unit, or are they non user changable ?
[1:37] <Corsac> hmhm, they should be changeable but not /very/ easily
[1:38] <Kitty> ah,
[1:38] <Corsac> though if you carry both the screen and the keyboard you should have like 12h runtime (though at the moment there's no power management on the kernel so it won't last that long)
[1:38] <Kitty> so I can't take a set of spares for say long train journeys ?
[1:38] <Corsac> well, I would expect most trains journeys not to last more than few hours
[1:38] <drantin> http://dpaste.com/119051/plain/ <-- output of cat /proc/cpuinfo
[1:39] <Kitty> Corsac: actually most of mine last about 12 hours
[1:39] <Kitty> amsterdam -> zurich for example
[1:39] <hyc> on a long train ride you can plug into power in the train
[1:39] <Kitty> hyc: not all trains have power, hence looking for something with a long battery life :p
[1:39] <Corsac> hyc: not sure about you but in .fr we don't have outlets in most trains :/
[1:40] <Corsac> Kitty: but you could have /two/ keyboard parts which means two bottom batteries :)
[1:40] <Kitty> Corsac: ooh,
[1:40] <Corsac> and change the keyboard part when the bottom bat runs out of power
[1:40] <hyc> a bit extreme, but that might be the easiest way to go
[1:40] <Corsac> yeah :)
[1:40] <Corsac> Kitty: the keyboard part should be at like $100
[1:40] <hyc> the batteries are not packaged for individual sale, certainly
[1:40] <Kitty> can I stick a normal debian arm distro on the machine?
[1:41] <Corsac> hyc: they should be findable on electronic stores though?
[1:41] <drantin> the keyboard costs less than some laptop batteries anyway
[1:41] <Corsac> Kitty: you could, but that may not be a really good idea
[1:41] <Kitty> the FAQ mentions special formatting for a new SD card ?
[1:41] <Kitty> Corsac: why so ?
[1:41] <Corsac> it will work but with few glitches
[1:41] <Corsac> first, debian arm targets armv4t cpu, while omap3 is armv7a
[1:41] <Kitty> ok
[1:41] <Corsac> which means debian won't benefit of all speed enhancement
[1:42] <Corsac> and the main dev uses OpenEmbedded at the moment, which means specific tweaks only appear there at the moment
[1:42] <Corsac> (like, drivers issues etc.)
[1:42] <Kitty> ok
[1:42] <Corsac> but it'll mainly work (some people have started an ubuntu port)
[1:43] <Kitty> does it comewith a full gcc tool chain etc...?
[1:43] <Corsac> and it seems to work fine, from what I've heard
[1:43] <Corsac> I wanted to start a debian port (beeing a DD myself) but I'm not sure I'll follow that road in the end
[1:43] <Corsac> Kitty: building on the TB might no be a very good idea
[1:43] <hyc> Corsac: dunno, nobody has posted part numbers for the batteries. Li batteries tend to be tough to buy as a consumer
[1:43] <Corsac> but cross-compiling using OE architecture is really easy
[1:44] <Corsac> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Cross_Compiler has the detailed procedure
[1:45] <Kitty> handy
[1:46] <Kitty> can we get the power adaptor with a sensible plug on it ?
[1:46] <Corsac> what do you mean?
[1:47] <Kitty> european, or UK
[1:47] <Corsac> when you order from international, they send you an adaptor
[1:48] <Corsac> I mean, the physical plug (the power brick is 110V/220V)
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[1:48] <Kitty> Corsac: aah thats handy
[1:48] <Corsac> so I could directly plug it to french power outlets
[1:48] <Kitty> what is the lead time on this ?
[1:49] <Kitty> if I was to order now, how soon should it arrive ?
[1:49] <Corsac> hmhm, not really soon, I don't exactly know the backlog but it may still be large, and international orders are a bit more complicated
[1:50] <Corsac> I think at the moment there is no more ???big batches???, they are supplied little be little, so we don't have a batch date
[1:50] <Kitty> doh
[1:50] <Corsac> Kitty: I won't be able to give a real answer but you could mail contact@alwaysinnovating.com
[1:50] <Corsac> or wait for tonight when gregoiregentil and alexandre are on irc
[1:50] <Kitty> ok
[1:50] <Corsac> (they usually spent some time here when it's the day for them)
[1:50] <Kitty> are they two people from alwaysinnovating?
[1:50] <hyc> I don't think they're doing batches now
[1:50] <Corsac> yes they are
[1:51] <Corsac> hyc: yup, I don't think so either
[1:51] <Corsac> though, 11/9 is day off so alexandre might not connect at all :)
[1:52] <Kitty> thank you all for your help, has given me lots to think about.
[1:53] <Corsac> you're welcome
[1:53] <Kitty> mind if I lurk for abit ?
[1:56] <Corsac> not really :)
[1:56] <Corsac> though we couldn't really prevent you to do so :)
[1:56] <fooq> lurking around is good manner in here ;)
[2:04] <Corsac> koen: hmmh, when I build a kernel myself, is the uImage and the modules available?
[2:05] <Corsac> ./glibc/images/omap3-touchbook/uImage-2.6.29-r43-pm2+gitre63cf0710a4fb639d91d3e8b05aa485fbfa381b3-omap3-touchbook.bin
[2:05] <Corsac> that looks like it
[2:06] <hyc> it's available in quite a few places in the tree
[2:07] <Corsac> and ./glibc/images/omap3-touchbook/modules-2.6.29-r43-pm2+gitre63cf0710a4fb639d91d3e8b05aa485fbfa381b3-omap3-touchbook.tgz
[2:07] <Corsac> seems so
[2:07] <DJWillis> Corsac: yep, that's all you need, well there is a meta package that will ship all the ipk modules if you want to install that way also.
[2:12] <Corsac> ok, trying to boot -pm
[2:13] <Corsac> hmhm though it seems to be called 2.6.29-omap1 so I won't know if I even boot the correct one in uname -a :)
[2:13] <leinir> gah, so sloooow
[2:13] <leinir> how many thousand other people are grabbing that squashfs image now? ;)
[2:14] <Corsac> yesterday I grabbed it at like 1.1MB/s
[2:16] <Corsac> koen, DJWillis: how can I be sure PM is active?
[2:16] <Corsac> cpuinfo doesn't give cpu frequency, only bogomips, which might be related but...
[2:17] <leinir> 2.14K/s... on a university connection
[2:18] <Corsac> 3% [> ] 13 231 448 755K/s eta 7m 51s
[2:19] <Corsac> and 1.1M/s from people.d.o
[2:19] <Corsac> let me mirror it for you
[2:19] <leinir> Thanks :)
[2:19] <Corsac> not sure you'll be able to download faster though
[2:19] <Corsac> but it may be worth it
[2:19] <Corsac> in which part of the world are you located?
[2:20] <leinir> i'm in Denmark, so Europe :)
[2:20] <Corsac> same for me
[2:20] <Corsac> people.d.o is in .ca so might not be really faster
[2:21] <Corsac> not sure if I have access to web hosting in .eu
[2:21] <Corsac> I mean, fast web hosting :)
[2:21] <leinir> Hehe :)
[2:23] <Corsac> leinir: http://people.debian.org/~corsac/image.squashfs
[2:24] <Corsac> is it better?
[2:24] <leinir> a LOT better, yeah :)
[2:24] <leinir> around two megs a second :)
[2:24] <leinir> and growing ;)
[2:24] <leinir> and falling ;)
[2:25] <leinir> varying greatly, but yeah, much faster even at the slowest :)
[2:26] <leinir> wooow... it just peaked at 8.5 M/s ;)
[2:26] <Corsac> :)
[2:27] <Corsac> tell me when it's finished, so I can remove the file
[2:27] <leinir> sure thing :)
[2:27] <leinir> done :)
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[2:38] <mellum> what image is that?
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[2:40] <Corsac> mellum: 2009.11a
[2:42] <mellum> ah. Well I suppose it'll be available using the normal update tool soon?
[2:42] <Corsac> mellum: it already is
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[3:39] <dpb> Hrmm.. "Does the Touch Book use a stylus? There is a stylus included in the package; you're free to use it or not!" says the wiki FAQ... I had no stylus in my package.
[3:43] <leinir> It's a tiny, tiny thing :)
[3:43] <leinir> Very out-sized ;)
[3:44] <Corsac> I had one
[3:44] <Corsac> and never use it :)
[3:44] <Corsac> but I don't use much the touchscreen anyway
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[3:52] <leinir> i've got mine from the freerunner :)
[3:53] <leinir> The touchbook, however, has exactly the same problem as the freerunner does...
[3:53] <leinir> no slot for the stylus
[3:54] <Corsac> the stylus is just a temp workaround for the flaky touchscreen, imho
[3:54] <leinir> Whether or not it's supposed to be the main input mode isn't important - that you /can/ use a stylus to me indicates that you should make it easy to do so. To achieve that, you need to have an easy way to carry it along with you
[3:54] <Corsac> the goal is to use only fingers
[3:54] <leinir> the stylus is a way to do precision input, which isn't possible by stabbing with a finger (which easily covers a good 20x20 pixel area)
[3:55] <leinir> and while i have nails, i am fully aware that a lot of people don't (my better half for one) ;)
[3:55] <Corsac> use your nail :)
[3:55] <leinir> ;)
[3:55] <Corsac> use a pen or whatever, then
[3:56] <leinir> Rule 1 of consumer hardware design: Never require people to change their physiology to use your device ;)
[3:56] <Corsac> or carry your own stylus in whatever hole you have
[3:56] <Corsac> (no pun intended :) )
[3:56] * leinir does not normally have pockets
[3:56] <Corsac> so you _want_ a stylus but don't want to carry it
[3:56] <Corsac> there's something not really logical in your pov, imho
[3:57] <leinir> i want a stylus, but i want that stylus to always be there when i need it
[3:57] <Corsac> then figure out to carry your own stylus :)
[3:57] <leinir> If it's in my other trousers, so to speak, then it's not where i need it - which is where my device is ;)
[3:57] <Corsac> if /you/ want a stylus, you should figure out how to carry it
[4:01] <dpb> buy a magnetic stylus and you can get it stuck on the touchbook
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[4:20] <jaggee> Good morning
[4:27] <jaggee> I'm interested in beta testing but have some questions related to use by someone with a disability
[4:28] <ryuo> jaggee: define "disability". theres many.
[4:29] <ryuo> if we know the type, it can give us an idea of whether we have something to help with it.
[4:31] <jaggee> hmm.. she has limited ability to move.. needs to use the onscreen keyboard.. I'm trying to find which one is available/included
[4:32] <ryuo> if i recall there is a software "virtual keyboard"...
[4:32] <jaggee> (I've had problems getting any usable onscreen keyboards to work in linux .. so she prefers to stay in windows..)
[4:33] <jaggee> yeah.. their user manual says to press the AI button twice for the kb
[4:34] <ryuo> i think its mainly designed to allow operation without the keyboard
[4:35] <dpb> operation without the keyboard is really unusable currently IMHO (unless 11.a has made it better, haven't tried it yet..)
[4:38] <ryuo> and greg still needs to fix the screen blanking... lol
[4:38] <jaggee> she definitely needs non-kb ability.. types with stylus
[4:38] <ryuo> i'll test the new release and see if that issue is fixed yet
[4:40] <jaggee> she needs it for taking notes during class. otherwise i'd mostly be using it (getting coding done on it hopefully)
[4:40] <Corsac> ryuo: I think it's supposed to be fixed in 2009.11a
[4:40] <ryuo> Corsac: oh? we'll see.
[4:40] <ryuo> its just been very irritating :P
[4:41] <dpb> ryuo: the screen blanking bug was closed as fixed.
[4:41] <jaggee> it's an exciting pproject isn't it
[4:41] <ryuo> dpb: i see. I'll wait and see for myself when the new release is available
[4:41] <dpb> ryuo: it IS available.
[4:41] * jaggee is now known as jaggz--
[4:41] <ryuo> dpb: i thought it was still being waited on?
[4:42] <dpb> ryuo: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/release/2009-11.a/
[4:42] <dpb> the wiki has the package list
[4:42] <jaggz--> how can i participate in beta testing?
[4:42] <Corsac> beta testing?
[4:42] <ryuo> have a TB and test the latest OS release? =p
[4:44] <jaggz--> corsac, their website portrayed the present models as beta testing
[4:44] <Corsac> jaggz--: ho, then just order it :)
[4:45] <jaggz--> i need it soon :) I want to replace this other company's thing here
[4:45] <dpb> jaggz--: the hardware is final, the software is just not ready
[4:46] <jaggz--> I think I need a personal favor, in return for the love of a young lady and my beta testing and linux experience.. or something else worthy of such love.
[4:47] <jaggz--> (it's my wife)
[4:47] * Q_Continuum (n=Q_Contin@75-168-127-104.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[4:48] <jaggz--> are the batteries replaceable?
[4:49] <ryuo> they are not removable like regular laptop batteries, they are integrated into it it appears
[4:49] <ryuo> i saw it when i opened up the TB to change the SD.
[4:50] <Corsac> it should be possible but not easy
[4:50] <jaggz--> that's one of the problems I have with this computer here (if it's okay to talk about it .. not sure of the environment here)
[4:51] <jaggz--> in case they die too soon like some % of batteries/systems seem to have a problem with (not AI's.. I have no experience with AI systems)
[4:52] <jaggz--> anyway, I think I'm talking too much.. is someone (greg?) going to be around later?
[4:52] <jaggz--> someone with whom I can speak personally...or maybe I should fill out this online contact form
[4:53] <jaggz--> so, can you guys scroll and such just like normal touchscreen, without keyboard?
[4:54] <viridior> morning
[4:54] <jaggz--> have they implemented drag scrolling in window areas, or do you need to push on the scrollbar, behaving just like a mouse drag?
[4:54] <jaggz--> morning viri. (brb, going to other room)
[4:55] <DJWillis> jaggz--: few GTK controls use kenetic scroll, it's just like a mouse overlay for the most part. That said, apps (like Midori) are starting to use kenetic aware controls for finger scrolling in the browser.
[4:56] <dpb> kinetic*
[4:57] <DJWillis> doh, did not read over what I typed, oh well, at least it's consistently wrong ;-)
[4:59] <dpb> that's what worried me more. :(
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[5:04] <DJWillis> dpb: dyslexic, I really find it hard to spot typos like that most of the time (reason I tend to c/p everything into an editor before I reply in IRC) ;-)
[5:06] <jaggz> dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!
[5:07] <DJWillis> Someone had to say it ;-)
[5:08] <jaggz> you cut and paste each line back and forth between an editor and IRC? It gives you a better view?
[5:09] <DJWillis> jaggz: Only stuff I type if I am not sure of the spelling/layout really. No big deal.
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[5:18] <jaggz> hm
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[8:13] <snlemons> the IRC logs tell me tracking numbers were supposed to be sent out Tuesday. I got a processed email on Nov 5, but have not gotten a shipment notification yet. should I be worried? :)
[8:17] <snlemons> order number is #ZZLSA in case you need it.
[8:17] <Corsac> snlemons: the main contact point is contact@alwaysinnovating.com
[8:17] <snlemons> oh, and the payment did, in fact, go through according to my bank.
[8:18] <snlemons> Corsac: coo. thanks. I'll hassle that address, instead. :)
[8:18] <snlemons> *cool
[8:18] <Corsac> and if you refer to alexandre post, he asked not to worry before wednesday
[8:18] <Corsac> which is today, and it's like 8am
[8:18] <Corsac> so basically, wait for wednesday evening or thursday morning to hassle :)
[8:18] <snlemons> Corsac: ah, noon where I am. and I hadn't seen that post, just the IRC logs.
[8:20] <snlemons> where is that post, anyway? I only really watch Announcements and the News page.
[8:21] <Corsac> in announcement I think
[8:21] <Corsac> but maybe it was just here
[8:21] <snlemons> could be. last I see in Announce is "Improved balance..." on Nov 4.
[8:22] <snlemons> but thanks for the news. I guess I was just getting antsy because of the length of time since the charge on my account, but batch shipments make for weirdness like that, I guess. :)
[8:27] <jaggz> so how do you guys like the computer? have you been able to compare with another netbook (like the kb comfort)?
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[9:13] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: morning.
[9:13] <gregoiregentil> Hello
[9:15] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: when you post instructions for using other OS, will you include a list of stuff we need from the AI software to make the most of the hardware?
[9:15] <gregoiregentil> I think so. What you essentially need is mlo, u-boot, and kernel. then the OS should provide the rootfs
[9:15] <ryuo> kernel is obvious, but theres some userspace software that isn't so obvious to me.
[9:16] <ryuo> like do you need userspace daemons for scaling, battery, etc?
[9:16] <gregoiregentil> the userspace that is not so obvious is essentially the accelerometer and there is plenty of information about the accel in the wiki. There are three different examples
[9:17] <gregoiregentil> scaling, battery and everything else is handled in the kernel "as usual" for an ARM system
[9:17] <ryuo> hm...
[9:17] <ryuo> how hot does this computer get? it seems a little warm during usage.
[9:17] <ryuo> but nothing compared to my x86 laptop can get during heavy usage
[9:18] <ryuo> i've had my x86 kernel safeguards shutdown my computer when it got too hot before..
[9:18] <gregoiregentil> The omap is probably going around 50 degres max. He can support until 80d I think
[9:18] <ryuo> yea... the fact that it doesnt need much for cooling is a bonus.
[9:19] <ryuo> more space to use for whatever
[9:22] <ryuo> hm... could this thing burn CDs if i used a USB cd drive?
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[9:41] <sconemad> hi gregoire
[9:44] <sconemad> we don't seem to be getting anywhere with this USB issue i've been having, so i'd like to send it back for a replacement.
[9:44] <ryuo> sconemad: what USB issue?
[9:44] <sconemad> can you give me the information please
[9:45] <sconemad> ryuo: the USB ports on my tb will shutdown sometimes
[9:45] <ryuo> hm
[9:45] <ryuo> i've only tried USB flash drives with it
[9:46] <sconemad> well the whole USB hub shuts down, so the keyboard, touchpad, wlan and bluetooth all stop working :(
[9:47] <sconemad> nobody else seems to have reported this so i guess i just have a faulty board
[9:48] <leinir> that certainly sounds like a hardware woops
[9:48] <leinir> i certainly cannot say that i've experienced it with mine :)
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[9:57] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: mhm, 2009.11a seems to work fine, I've booted it with a -pm kernel which seems to behave fine, though I can't really compare autonomy atm
[9:57] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: still, it's currently charging, and it seems to take ages to charge, is that normal?
[9:58] <leinir> it takes a LONG time to charge
[10:03] <Corsac> hmhm
[10:03] <Corsac> bq27200-0/uevent:POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=-1765
[10:03] <Corsac> twl4030_bci_battery/uevent:POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=3414
[10:04] <Corsac> one charging, the other discharging
[10:04] <Corsac> that looks weird :)
[10:04] * fooq (n=reini@cm56-152-97.liwest.at) Quit ()
[10:05] <Corsac> the discharging one beeing the bottom one
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[10:20] <gregoiregentil> For the moment, the report of the top battery is still flaky. You should only trust the bottom report.
[10:21] <gregoiregentil> linux-omap-pm can work but there is a problem of rotation and dspbridge is broken with it.
[10:22] <Corsac> hhm
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[10:33] <koen> why needs bridge anyway
[10:33] * koen hides
[10:36] <gregoiregentil> As long as mplayer/cortex, Gregoire prefers that the user chooses the one it prefers
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[10:50] <Meiz_TB> gregoiregentil: it looks like the lates kernel has still no cpufreq, is it true?
[10:50] <Meiz_TB> If is, what's missing ?
[10:51] <Janno_freenode> does it have tun?
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[11:15] <ryuo> ah, the joy of netsplit roulette :P
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[11:45] <mellum> anyone else seeing division by zero in kernel mode in dmsg?
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[11:52] <tommd> Any opinions yet on the latest AI OS release?
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[11:53] <drantin> ninja vanish
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[11:56] * drantin would appreciate a list of valid SHA1 or CRC32 hashes of the OS files
[11:56] <drantin> possibly in an sfv file
[11:57] <drantin> would save a lot of the trouble I had last time, where I somehow got a messed up download >_>
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[12:32] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, due to the memleak issues we are experiencing with hyperion (our ircd) we will be taking a handful of servers out of rotation for the production network in order to utilise them to better test our new ircd; ircd-seven. Affected users will be notified seperately. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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[12:54] <azaghal> drantin: Or even PGP-signed ones :0
[12:54] <azaghal> * :)
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[13:15] <shiznebit> i have a serious problem
[13:15] <shiznebit> one of my usb ports is completely dead
[13:16] <shiznebit> i don't know how it died but its dead, i've shutdown and tried, i even reinstalled the OS and tried
[13:16] <shiznebit> doesn't matter what i do it doesn't work
[13:17] <shiznebit> does anyone have any suggestions ?
[13:18] <drantin> check the connections on the board?
[13:21] <shiznebit> well the exposed top right one doesn't work
[13:21] <shiznebit> but the one to the bottom does
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[16:42] <Guest39033> alexandre: can you provide me a tracking number?
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[17:46] <drantin> gregoiregentil: any chance of getting either a .sig file for the OS release, or a list of sha1 hashes?
[17:47] <drantin> I'd like to verify the image before I spend hours trying to find out that one downloaded improperly, like I did when resetting my SD card last time
[18:06] <gregoiregentil> drantin: yes. we will do it later today or tomorrow
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[18:06] <drantin> thanks :D
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[18:15] <jaggz> anyone tried another touchscreen system and not mind talking to me about it? It's for someone with a disability and I need to make a good decision here...
[18:15] <jaggz> it's for me too I guess
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[19:00] <Dipanjan> alexandre: any news on tha tracking # of my shipment (order # #ZPZGS). It was to be shipped on monday/tuesday
[19:00] <Dipanjan> I defintly donot want to spam this channel but probably things are not working for me
[19:06] <alexandre> Dipanjan: please ask privately for this kind of issue
[19:06] <alexandre> I answered you there
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[19:24] <alexandre> To avoid channel spamming, for all orders just processed, please read carefully our last announcement: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=441
[19:31] <asciiforever> so has anyone managed to install the 2009-11.a OS yet?
[19:31] <asciiforever> i have been trying for a few hours and i remain unsuccessful
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[20:31] <shiznebit> asciiforever, i did it manually
[20:31] <shiznebit> oh
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[21:06] <jaggz-> re
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[22:48] <jvs> alexandre, your mailbox will explode on saturday
[22:48] <jvs> alexandre, whoa - forget it -_-
[22:49] <jvs> should not read forum announcements before drinking at least 2 coffees
[22:49] <alexandre> is it so hard to read ? ;)
[22:50] <jvs> I read, "if your shipping address is in the US ... if nothing is in your mailbox by saturday..."
[22:50] <jvs> argh
[22:50] <jvs> *not in the US*
[22:51] <jvs> you see, happened again
[22:51] <jvs> out of coffee -_-
[22:52] <Corsac> wow
[22:52] <Corsac> usps kind-of sucks :/
[22:53] <jvs> *all* parcel services suck
[23:29] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/
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These logs were automatically created by TouchBook-LogBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.