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[3:48] <dridk_> hi!Is it possible to cancel a purchase?
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[3:57] <Aard> dridk_: yes. did your card already get billed/the touchbook shipped?
[3:59] <dridk_> Aard: I just payed and receive the order paper
[3:59] <Aard> payed? you mean, you just placed the order?
[3:59] <dridk_> Aard: yes
[4:00] <Aard> just send them an email (I think contact@alwaysinnovating.com)
[4:00] <dridk_> Aard: I m from france and I m afraid to not receive the touchbook before September
[4:01] <dridk_> Aard: do you have an idea how long is the order list?
[4:03] <Aard> no, sorry. last info given was that they had problems with the march batch
[4:04] <dridk_> ok
[4:04] <dridk_> Last question : Does someone try to make an application using qt4?
[4:04] <Aard> shipping to france should take about 2 weeks (including delay through customs), so you could wait till about august (or whenever you lose patience), and cancel the order then if it has not been shipped
[4:05] <Aard> on the snapshot of angstrom ai-os is using qt is not compiling. you can, however, compile your qt programs in a later snapshot of angstrom
[4:05] <Aard> you'd either need to ship qt packages as well, or do static linking
[4:06] <dridk_> Aard: ok! lot of bad new :(
[4:06] <Aard> well, you're not limited to ai-os
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[4:08] <dridk_> Aard: But I have read that other os are not supported nicely
[4:09] <dridk_> Aard: hope touchbook will be compatible with meego in the futur
[4:09] <Aard> it will
[4:11] <Aard> as for the other os: you can always try native angstrom, I guess that's almost as usable as ai-os by now
[4:11] <dridk_> Aard: so, I ordered 2 touchbook for my hospital 1 month ago! I will wait until july ! If I do not receive new about my purchase, i will cancel it
[4:11] <dridk_> Aard: angstrom? Ok, I will take a look
[4:12] <Aard> I thing going for angstrom is your best bet for now (unless you can live with ubuntu)
[4:12] <Aard> meego will take quite some time, I doubt you'll see something that suits your needs by september
[4:14] <dridk_> Aard: angstrom looks simple and nice ! Everything is working on it?
[4:14] <dridk_> Aard: i mean accelerometer, touching, ....
[4:15] <Aard> I don't know about the current state of the kernel, I didn't have much time the last 2 months. if it's not working out of the box it should be easy to get it working
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[4:16] <dridk_> Aard: I was thinking to use qt embedded on touchbook
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[7:46] <Meizirkki> Any news regarding the .32 kernel ?
[7:47] <Meizirkki> gregoire promised to upload it somewhere week ago
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[10:12] <adnyxo> man im having such a hard time deciding between the touchbook and the droid incredible
[10:12] <adnyxo> ive got $100
[10:12] <leinir> well... they're very, very different devices :)
[10:12] <Meizirkki> motorola droid?
[10:12] <adnyxo> i just wish the touchbook android port was finished
[10:12] <adnyxo> i know,
[10:12] <adnyxo> but i can only afford one
[10:12] <adnyxo> and since i dont really use my phone
[10:12] <leinir> Meizirkki: Nah, droid inredible is the bastardised verizon version of one of HTC's devices :)
[10:13] <Meizirkki> ok
[10:13] <adnyxo> the droid incredible would just be a mid
[10:13] <adnyxo> leinir: you dont like the incredible
[10:13] <adnyxo> ?
[10:13] <leinir> adnyxo: i don't like the way US telcos handle mobile devices ;)
[10:13] <adnyxo> same here
[10:13] <adnyxo> verizon is my telco of choice though
[10:13] <leinir> Somehow they've managed to convince the public that hand cuffs are a great idea ;)
[10:13] <Meizirkki> droid doesn't seem to have a hw keyboard.. which is a me regarding that kind of gadget..
[10:14] <leinir> Meizirkki: Indeed - capacitative screen as well
[10:14] <Meizirkki> but the again, Touch Book has been the worst device i have ever wasted my money on
[10:14] <Meizirkki> so hard to say which i would recommend..
[10:14] <leinir> What, you don't have a freerunner? ;)
[10:14] <Meizirkki> no i don't
[10:15] <leinir> oh right :)
[10:15] <adnyxo> perhaps this is not the best place to ask weather or not to buy a touchbook...
[10:16] <adnyxo> i prefer capcative screens on devices, but ive all ready had a conversation with someone on that issue
[10:16] <Meizirkki> Nokia N810 is the best device i have ever had.. sad that nokia moved to 3.5 screen and plastic cover with the n900...
[10:16] <Meizirkki> cover/case*
[10:16] <leinir> Meizirkki: the size decision was a marketing decision, apparently, they didn't think they'd be able to sell a device the size of... woopsie, the HD2 Pro ;)
[10:17] <adnyxo> n810 has a bigger display than the n900?
[10:17] <leinir> Personally i like the cover on the n900 well enough :)
[10:17] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, n810 has 4.1in
[10:17] <leinir> adnyxo: 4.1" iirc, same resolution :)
[10:17] <adnyxo> nice
[10:17] <Meizirkki> n900 only 3.5
[10:17] <adnyxo> oh same resolution is not so awesome
[10:18] <leinir> i don't find it's a problem, though, the screen on the n900 is super-crisp and clear, and well... just works really nicely :)
[10:18] <leinir> i'm thoroughly impressed with the thing :)
[10:18] <Meizirkki> yeah.. while motorola and Google moved to bigger screens -> 3.7in, Nokia moved down to the iPhone level :/
[10:18] <leinir> Meizirkki: Well, for that one, just wait for the n900++ ;)
[10:18] <adnyxo> so
[10:19] <adnyxo> if i did buy a touchbook, how long would it take to ship?
[10:19] <adnyxo> im an impatient kind of person
[10:19] <leinir> adnyxo: anyway, it depends greatly on what sort of thing you're looking for :)
[10:19] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, at least a month
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[10:19] <leinir> Well, impatience and touchbooks don't mix ;)
[10:19] * Meizirkki waits for real ARM laptops
[10:19] <adnyxo> leinir, crap
[10:19] <adnyxo> also, im not exactly sure what im looking for
[10:20] <Mrkva> 19:17 < Meizirkki> but the again, Touch Book has been the worst device i have ever wasted my money on
[10:20] <adnyxo> im looking for the mobile internet
[10:20] <Mrkva> Meizirkki: really, why? :)
[10:20] <Meizirkki> Netbooks are too big to fit into a pocket, and too small to actually work with..
[10:20] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, where do i begin?
[10:20] <adnyxo> but im unsure about what form factor i want
[10:20] <adnyxo> Meizirkki, thats what i mean
[10:20] <leinir> adnyxo: Well, then you should consider very heavily whether you wouldn't like to get an n900... best mobile browser out there, no holds barred :)
[10:20] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, It has gone broken 10 times (probably underestimation)
[10:20] <leinir> microB is amazing :)
[10:20] <adnyxo> bigger with more features, or smaller in my pocket
[10:20] <adnyxo> shutup
[10:20] <adnyxo> dont respond to that last statement
[10:21] <adnyxo> dont even think about it
[10:21] <Mrkva> Meizirkki: what you mean with "gone broken"? some hardware issue?
[10:21] <adnyxo> i know what youre thinking
[10:21] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, yes
[10:21] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, the software sucks too
[10:21] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, and it's a bit underpowered IMO
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[10:22] <adnyxo> yea the cell phones now have 1ghz procs
[10:22] <adnyxo> and the same amount of ram!
[10:22] <adnyxo> well, the droid is 667 as well iirc
[10:22] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, AI sucks.. the final software was supposed to come out before 2010, then it was moved for a month, then another month and the list goes on...
[10:23] <adnyxo> i kinda have my hopes for android on the device
[10:23] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, 600MHz Omap3 kicks 1GHz snapdragons ass
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[10:23] <adnyxo> how so?
[10:23] <Mrkva> well, I've found out it's a great toy... on the other hand, I'm a student and I have a time (and enjoy) playing with it
[10:23] <Meizirkki> I "just does"
[10:23] <adnyxo> rofl
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[10:24] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, I'm a student as well, and like to play around with my TB, but not having it in a usable state for 2 weeks in a row pisses me off
[10:24] <adnyxo> i think with android, the touchbook could be a better platform
[10:24] <Meizirkki> and Touch Book could be overclocked to 900MHz easily
[10:24] <Meizirkki> I'm looking forward to fully functional android too :)
[10:24] <Mrkva> Meizirkki: well, I think I should get it in really usable state in a week or so
[10:25] <Mrkva> but well, the AIOS 2010.03 is quite good
[10:25] <tcl-tester> what are the limitations on Android right now?
[10:25] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, I mean It doesn't stay in usable state
[10:25] <Meizirkki> Mrkva, either software or hardware goes broken
[10:25] <Meizirkki> tcl-tester, Touch Screen barely works, no wifi, no sound, no SD card support
[10:26] <Meizirkki> tcl-tester, you can get it to boot, that's all
[10:26] <adnyxo> i think ai should focus more on porting android, cause then they can stop worrying about their crap os adn reap the benefits of the rapidly developing android universe
[10:26] <adnyxo> once the get a stable and working android branch, all the android innovations go to the touch book
[10:27] <adnyxo> also, android is supposed to get full flash next release as well
[10:27] <Meizirkki> I don't really like android either, but it's the best OS for TB available at the moment
[10:27] <Meizirkki> I have high hopes for MeeGp
[10:27] <Meizirkki> MeeGo*
[10:27] <DrIDK> MeeGo power !!
[10:27] <adnyxo> meego sounds like itl be smooth
[10:28] <Meizirkki> Intel + Nokia = Something that might actually work
[10:28] <DrIDK> meego is Qt4... Qt4 is the best !
[10:28] <Meizirkki> + the community ofc :P
[10:28] <adnyxo> Meizirkki, im not such a fan of intel, but it could work
[10:28] <Meizirkki> DrIDK, +1
[10:28] <adnyxo> qt4 is used in kde, no?
[10:28] <Meizirkki> yes
[10:28] <DrIDK> adnyxo: kde, skype, google earth ...
[10:28] <DrIDK> VirtualBox, Adobe plubisher ..;
[10:29] <leinir> Maya
[10:29] <leinir> (as in the newest Maya)
[10:29] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, intel has been developing mobile linux for a long time already, as Nokia. They might be able to create something that really works.
[10:30] <Meizirkki> :)
[10:30] <DrIDK> Meego = Moblin from intel + maemo from Nokia
[10:30] <Meizirkki> Intels mobile devices are a kinda fail though
[10:30] <Meizirkki> x86 = very bed battery life
[10:30] <Meizirkki> bad*
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[10:32] <DrIDK> And Qt4 is embeddable on linux : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXPe9pzhUlE&feature=related
[10:32] <DrIDK> that's mean : without X server
[10:32] <Meizirkki> symbian^3 will support Qt
[10:32] <adnyxo> it doesnt make much sense that intel would want to help arm based mobile devices when they are beginning to undercut the x86 and x86-64 market
[10:33] <adnyxo> especially tablet wise
[10:33] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, They probably aren't helping any arm based mobile devices
[10:33] <adnyxo> and more software is becoming compatible
[10:33] <adnyxo> ?
[10:33] <adnyxo> netbooks?
[10:34] <adnyxo> why not
[10:34] <Meizirkki> I mean, are they ?
[10:35] <adnyxo> well if they use their time making a mobile os for arm, it at least seems like a waste of time for them
[10:35] <Meizirkki> MeeGo is for both x86 and arm
[10:36] <adnyxo> ah
[10:36] <adnyxo> does this mean nokia will begin making x86 devices
[10:36] <adnyxo> or they just needed help with their software
[10:36] <Meizirkki> err..
[10:36] <adnyxo> im still not sure whats in it for intel
[10:36] <DrIDK> where can I see the AI repository ?
[10:37] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, Nokia will continue to make arm based devices
[10:37] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, as well as inter x86 based
[10:38] <adnyxo> ok
[10:38] <Meizirkki> intel*
[10:39] <Meizirkki> Only software is changing, devices will stay the same
[10:39] <adnyxo> okay
[10:41] <Meizirkki> Any news regarding the .32 kernel btw ?
[10:45] <adnyxo> nope
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[10:47] <Meizirkki> LOL http://www.timothysykes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/etchasketch.jpg
[10:48] <Meizirkki> http://thdonline.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/ipad-vs-rock.jpg
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[10:50] <adnyxo> nice
[10:51] <adnyxo> add the camera
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[11:24] <tommd> Meizirkki: Sounds like it will be out soon in the form of a 05.a release
[11:24] <tommd> the .32 kernel
[11:26] <Meizirkki> -.-
[11:26] * nascent (~nascent@67.110.217.136.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:26] <Meizirkki> That's what I was afraid of :P
[11:27] <Mrkva> Meizirkki: why? :)
[11:27] <Meizirkki> That they would not release the kernel until the OS's are ready.. and no one knows how long the AIOS + Android takes them to finish
[11:28] <Meizirkki> Final Software has now been delayed for 5 months already..
[11:28] <Aard> Meizirkki: did you check the ai git repository?
[11:29] <Meizirkki> Aard, few days ago, yes
[11:29] <Aard> nothing in there?
[11:29] <Meizirkki> some android build scripts..
[11:30] <Meizirkki> Aard, gregoire said week and few days ago that as for the .32 kernel everything's working and that he would upload it somewhere this weekend
[11:30] <Meizirkki> It's now a week late
[11:31] <Meizirkki> searched the logs for 2 weeks.. nothing
[11:31] <Aard> there were quite a lot .32 things in there in early april, don't know how much has changed since then
[11:31] <Aard> moving and new job kept me a bit busy ;)
[11:31] <Raedwulf> intel sometimes manufacture arm devices
[11:32] <Mrkva> well
[11:32] <Raedwulf> though not sure if it would be in their best interests
[11:32] <Raedwulf> when they're pushing their atom technology
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[11:32] <rhyhann> Hello
[11:33] <Raedwulf> hi
[11:33] <Aard> Raedwulf: there are rumours that texas instruments will get out of the mobile devices business by 2012, which would mean `end of omap'. cause most likely because they guess they won't be able to compete against atom by then
[11:33] <rhyhann> I would like to buy a Touch book, and I have some questions
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[11:33] <Raedwulf> ouch
[11:33] <Raedwulf> that sucks
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[11:33] <Aard> I still hope it's not true, I'm getting sick of getting followed by x86-crap
[11:33] <Mrkva> We'll see
[11:34] <Meizirkki> Aard, +1
[11:34] <Aard> first they took my alpha workstations, then my sparc workstations, and now they're after my mobile devices
[11:34] <Raedwulf> well really depends whether the success of arm netbooks holds out
[11:34] <Meizirkki> OMAP4 would bring some power
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[11:34] <Raedwulf> if it succeeds, then probably TI will keep on heh
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[11:34] <rhyhann> Sorry, lag
[11:34] <Meizirkki> I want a full 15in screen ARM laptop :)
[11:35] <rhyhann> What is the current status of the backlog ?
[11:35] <Aard> Raedwulf: basically ti said `yeah, we're successful now, and we're milking it, but we don't think we can keep it up, so we'll get out as long as we're ahead'
[11:35] <Raedwulf> maybe 2012 because of the film, omap wouldn't need mobile devices anymore
[11:35] <Raedwulf> :)
[11:35] <Meizirkki> rhyhann, no one knows but you'
[11:35] <Meizirkki> ll have to wait for a month at least..
[11:35] <Raedwulf> well at least there's more than one arm manufacturer
[11:36] <Raedwulf> just omap has come forward as the most hacker-friendly available devices so far
[11:36] <Meizirkki> ARM will not die
[11:36] <Meizirkki> x86 will never take over cellphones
[11:36] <Raedwulf> yea it won't its just availablility
[11:36] <Raedwulf> well not necessarily Meizirkki, it all depends on production
[11:37] <Mrkva> well, I can imagine intel producing some low-power unit
[11:37] <Aard> Meizirkki: uhm, I'd not be that sure. intel is working on a cellphone prototype with x86, and intel can go cheaper for a while than the other manufacturers to push their chips
[11:37] <rhyhann> I need my laptop to be received by the middle of June... Is it realistic?
[11:37] <Raedwulf> i mean, you could have a x86 cell-phone and maybe its perks will be one day, it can run an overbloated piece of m$ system
[11:37] <Meizirkki> rhyhann, I'm afraid none of us know
[11:38] <rhyhann> Ok...
[11:38] <Meizirkki> x86 phone? really..?
[11:38] <rhyhann> I will have to ask AI people
[11:38] <Raedwulf> the latest we heard is that they don't know either
[11:38] <Meizirkki> x86 is a piece of shit when it comes to "performance per watt"
[11:38] <Raedwulf> they had a problem with the March batch, so it was smaller than expected
[11:38] <Aard> Meizirkki: they're apparently making quite some progress regarding atom power consumption
[11:39] <Raedwulf> Meizirkki: yes, but Aard+1
[11:39] <Meizirkki> Aard, well, that's good to hear :)
[11:39] <Raedwulf> its a matter of time
[11:39] <Aard> no, it's not, because I still don't like x86 :)
[11:39] <Raedwulf> nor do i, but its what we have :P
[11:39] <Meizirkki> I'd still prefer arm too :P
[11:39] <Raedwulf> arm's design is so much cleaner
[11:40] <Raedwulf> if you read what they did to the atom to make it low power
[11:40] <Raedwulf> it sounds horrifying
[11:40] <Raedwulf> :P
[11:41] <Raedwulf> basically it doesn't support out-of-order execution
[11:41] <Raedwulf> of instructions
[11:41] <Raedwulf> ARM doesn't need this, but as x86 has crappy instruction lengths etc.
[11:41] <Raedwulf> they need it
[11:41] <Aard> as far as I know atom even still has the a20 gate :)
[11:42] <Raedwulf> :D
[11:42] <Aard> seriously, it's time x86 dies and gets replaced by something sane
[11:42] <Raedwulf> yea the legacy is because of old boot procedures
[11:42] <Raedwulf> doesn't it need like to go up into 2-3 modes before it gets to the mode we actually use now?
[11:43] <Aard> where the hell do you see old boot procedures on a cpu designed for netbooks, where you could basically start from scratch?
[11:43] <Raedwulf> exactly
[11:43] <Raedwulf> some years ago it was said like 25% of the chip real-estate was for legacy reasons
[11:44] <Raedwulf> im sure its smaller now
[11:44] <Raedwulf> but still...
[11:44] <Raedwulf> im surprised tho, why its taken ARM so long to actually go to challenge x86
[11:44] <Aard> a, just checked, yes, atom still has the a20 gate. and, oddly enough, some of the documented implementation bugs for nehalem are related to -- a20 :)
[11:44] <Raedwulf> its kinda 5 years a bit late
[11:45] <Raedwulf> lol
[11:46] * Raedwulf enters rant mode.
[11:47] <Raedwulf> Seriously windows, mac? i can't do what i'd like to do with them.
[11:47] * Raedwulf exists rant mode.
[11:47] <Raedwulf> exits*
[11:47] <Aard> so, we got an about 30 year old mechanism in a modern cpu designed for making 80286-chips compatible with 8086-chips that's causing trouble today. that's innovative design!
[11:47] <Raedwulf> hehe :D
[11:48] <Meizirkki> Apple seems to be heading to ARM based devices..
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[11:49] <Raedwulf> thats good
[11:49] <Raedwulf> tho i dislike mac
[11:50] <Raedwulf> but, it keeps ARM alive
[11:50] <Noume> uhm yeah, but i'd like to see something like the Tegra inside the touchbook. wouldn't that be great?
[11:50] <Raedwulf> yep
[11:50] <Noume> And i guess Apple is up to making something similar
[11:51] <Aard> i'm just waiting for apple to seal off the desktop/notebook os-x as they did with the iphone/ipad to hopefully piss of the last developers with a few braincells left
[11:51] <Raedwulf> hehe
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[12:00] <Raedwulf> i hate closed source stuff for that reason
[12:00] <Raedwulf> and love open-source heh
[12:00] <Raedwulf> developing on windows... man what a nightmare when there's dependencies
[12:00] <Raedwulf> its like a forest of things... install this, install that..
[12:00] <Raedwulf> now configure your IDE
[12:01] <Raedwulf> to fit your paths to those things
[12:01] <Raedwulf> wtf...
[12:01] <Aard> well, microsoft closed source is way better than apples `you want to develop for iphone? well, we'd first like to stick that spikey dildo up your arse'
[12:01] <Raedwulf> that is true
[12:01] <Raedwulf> microsoft is evil with cracks in, and apple is evil, but shiny
[12:01] <Raedwulf> no cracks too
[12:01] <Aard> and recent visual studio incarnations got quite usable, though the ide and build system is crap
[12:02] <Raedwulf> its usable, but you are talking to a vim-user :P
[12:02] <Aard> so you basically install visual studio, and go for some 3rd party build system on command line
[12:02] <Aard> I've been doing lot's of windows development on my last job, everything done on solaris with emacs. I only used windows for compiling and testing
[12:02] <Raedwulf> i use VS daily at work, and prefer VIM to it anyday
[12:03] <Raedwulf> yea, i wish i could too :P, but it was a lot of C# stuff
[12:03] <Raedwulf> with a delicate balance of configuration
[12:03] <Raedwulf> which makes you want to wrench your heart out
[12:04] <Aard> I thankfully only did very few c# stuff. most was c++ with qt
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[12:04] <Raedwulf> oh thats quite doable elsewhere then
[12:05] <Raedwulf> considering qt is cross-platform
[12:05] <Aard> parts of the libraries I used were windows only, so I couldn't compile/test on solaris
[12:05] <Raedwulf> ah
[12:06] <Aard> but as I said before, the command line utilities included with visual studio are quite usable
[12:06] <Raedwulf> yea
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[12:06] <Raedwulf> "usable" being key ;)
[12:07] <Raedwulf> "lovable" is what i like about *nix :P
[12:08] <Aard> I don't see any more windows development in my near future ;)
[12:08] <Raedwulf> i finish my placement job mid-july
[12:08] * Raedwulf wants his touchbook at least by mid-july
[12:08] <Raedwulf> hehe
[12:08] <Aard> oh, you're one of those still without :)
[12:08] <Raedwulf> yea
[12:09] <Raedwulf> one of those lost-sheep
[12:09] <Raedwulf> pretty much want the touchbook to be like a kindle, but be a bit more :P
[12:09] <Aard> even got mine with me here. quite glad I managed to get enough space in my luggage
[12:09] <Raedwulf> so i can probably develop with it too - a big ssh client
[12:09] <Aard> though I'm now missing a soldering iron
[12:10] <Raedwulf> :D
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[12:11] <Raedwulf> as i develop pretty much on the terminal, i don't need the compilation power - just a steady net connection
[12:12] <Mrkva> by the way, guys - is there a chance to get a job like a linux admin in your country with only a grammar school? :)
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[12:12] <Aard> Mrkva: erm, what is `your coutry'? :0
[12:12] <Raedwulf> though no doubt some sort of remote desktop - ssh -Y or something will work too
[12:12] <Aard> Raedwulf: hm, in that case you'd want an external keyboard, it's a bit small for lots of typing
[12:13] <Raedwulf> linux admins are always in demand for other reasons in the england, but probably not for schools
[12:13] <Raedwulf> maybe universities
[12:13] <Mrkva> Raedwulf: well, I mean grammar school as my current education level
[12:13] <Raedwulf> Aard: yea im getting two of the scratched keyboards
[12:13] <Mrkva> sometimes I see university as a waste of time
[12:13] <Raedwulf> ah right,
[12:14] <Mrkva> Aard: any country where can I get job without knowledge of foreign language (except english)
[12:14] <Raedwulf> probably not
[12:14] <Aard> Raedwulf: erm, by external keyboard I meant `something bigger'
[12:14] <Raedwulf> oh right
[12:14] <Raedwulf> whats wrong with the one with the touchbook?
[12:14] <Raedwulf> my hands are tiny
[12:14] <Raedwulf> :P
[12:15] <Aard> in that case you might be able to live with it, my hands are too big to use it as regular keyboard for a longer time
[12:15] <Raedwulf> ah right
[12:15] <Raedwulf> well mine are quite small in comparison with most people
[12:16] <Raedwulf> (my sis's hands are almost as big as mine and she's 12)
[12:16] <Raedwulf> lol
[12:16] <Raedwulf> but then im no giant either :P
[12:16] <Mrkva> Raedwulf: oh, okay... I'll just have to spend three more years in school :(
[12:17] <Raedwulf> yea, papers count Mrkva :<
[12:17] <Raedwulf> i could be a linux admin as well
[12:17] <Raedwulf> but its definitely niche
[12:17] <Raedwulf> but its available
[12:17] <Aard> Mrkva: you'd be able to start in most european countries with just english, though only in big companies where the official language is english
[12:17] <Aard> and usually you got to prove some experience to get in there
[12:17] <Raedwulf> and if its a big company, they probably want to see your qualifications
[12:17] <Raedwulf> if you were like in the 70s, 80s
[12:18] <Raedwulf> you'd have a good chance
[12:18] <Raedwulf> but there's far too many computer folk weilding degrees these days
[12:18] <Raedwulf> wielding*
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[12:19] <Raedwulf> basically you need at least something higher than grammar school
[12:19] <Aard> basically: if you got some special knowledge you'll be able to find a job easily. if you don't -- almost always people already living there will get the job
[12:19] <Raedwulf> where are you from btw?
[12:20] <Raedwulf> grammar schools i thought were only in the british isles
[12:20] <Raedwulf> im guessing you're from around the UK too
[12:22] <Raedwulf> ah are you czech - did a lookup on your ip
[12:22] <Raedwulf> apparently there's czech grammar schools
[12:23] <Aard> Raedwulf: I guess that's just the closest translation for the education he's got
[12:23] <Aard> translating education levels is always a bit painful
[12:23] <Raedwulf> yea, i have no idea what a czech grammar school level is
[12:23] <Raedwulf> in england its not really tradeable if you just leave grammar school
[12:24] <Raedwulf> they means you probably have just an a-level
[12:24] <Aard> depends on your scells ;)
[12:24] <Aard> err, skills
[12:24] <Raedwulf> you *might* be able to get a job, but its not easy
[12:24] <Aard> I've left school at a similar level
[12:24] <Raedwulf> i for one know a computer geek that managed to get a job with a rather big company before finishing his a-levels
[12:24] <Raedwulf> but he had lots of connections
[12:25] <Aard> I worked while at school, and decided that it would be wiser to just work fulltime and drop out
[12:25] <Raedwulf> ok
[12:25] <Aard> now, ten years later nobody cares about my education level anymore
[12:25] <Raedwulf> im taking the university route, with a year in industry
[12:25] <Raedwulf> yea, you have the experience
[12:25] <Raedwulf> but first you need to get the experience
[12:26] <Raedwulf> catch 22 ;) if you don't manage to get a job in the first place
[12:26] <Aard> that's what I mentioned above
[12:26] <Raedwulf> yea
[12:26] <Raedwulf> thats why i said probably not :D
[12:27] <Raedwulf> maybe its me, though working a year in industry has been great
[12:27] <Aard> quitting without a job is probably something you should avoid, and the first years after might not be quite as easy as well. though I didn't regret it
[12:27] <Raedwulf> i can almost pay for my entire degree
[12:27] <Mrkva> Raedwulf: Czech republic :)
[12:27] <Raedwulf> yea, i guessed from your ip
[12:27] <Raedwulf> what level do you leave at
[12:28] <Raedwulf> i mean straight to uni afterwards?
[12:28] <Mrkva> Raedwulf: and grammar school - well, it's classic high school without any qualification
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[12:28] <Aard> well, I completely saved the cost of getting a degree, while still earning about the same as I did if I had one ;)
[12:28] <Raedwulf> oh you didn't qualify?
[12:28] <Mrkva> s/qualification/specialization
[12:28] <Raedwulf> oh ok
[12:28] <Raedwulf> so you got pieces of paper?
[12:28] <Raedwulf> at the end of it?
[12:28] <Raedwulf> you might be able to though, but it'll be tough searching
[12:29] <Raedwulf> i suggest you look around - get into web development too
[12:29] <Raedwulf> web development + linux admin can work well together
[12:29] <Aard> web development is painful. it's not as painful as it was a few years ago, but still pretty annoying.
[12:30] <Raedwulf> Aard: i abhor web development
[12:30] <Aard> and there are lot's of people out there doing exactly that
[12:30] <Raedwulf> but some people like that
[12:30] <Raedwulf> the reason is, its in great demand
[12:30] <Mrkva> Raedwulf: well, I've got some experiences with web development also :)
[12:30] <Raedwulf> any small company likes a website
[12:30] <Raedwulf> so there's a lot of market
[12:30] <Mrkva> so, for now, I'll attend the school and try to search a job :) thanks guys
[12:30] <Raedwulf> yea
[12:30] <Raedwulf> good idea
[12:30] <Aard> yeah, and about 99% of the people out there are producing crap, and sooner or later you'll have to work with one of them
[12:31] <Raedwulf> just keep going until you do find a "safe" job
[12:31] <Aard> at least you don't have to cope with a bunch of browsers completely disagreeing how to display that site anymore
[12:32] <Raedwulf> yea, god bless standards!
[12:32] <Raedwulf> ofc IE tries to be as incompatible as possible
[12:32] <Raedwulf> :P
[12:33] <Aard> ie7 and 8 are quite painless to work with
[12:33] <Aard> you don't want to support ie6, of course
[12:35] <Mrkva> well, you can try
[12:35] <Mrkva> :)
[12:36] <Raedwulf> try and die!
[12:36] <Raedwulf> :P
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[14:28] <andol_> hi
[14:35] <tommd1> hello
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[21:03] <Raedwulf> hi
[21:03] <tommd> ih
[21:03] <tommd> fluwdeaR
[21:10] * Mrkva (~Mrkva@94.127.132.46) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[21:12] <tommd> gregoiregentil: Where does any discussion about linux-omap-psp upstreaming take place (besides lkml)?
[21:12] <tommd> Also, if you haven't seen ubuntu 10.04 netbook spin then you really need to take a look.
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[21:59] <gregoiregentil> tommd: linux-omap mailing list
[22:00] <tommd> thanks
[22:01] <gregoiregentil> tommd: 10.04, you mean the desktop experience?
[22:01] <tommd> gregoiregentil: Yes. My wife picked up an EeePc and put Ubuntu 10.04 on it recently. I was impressed with the interface.
[22:02] <gregoiregentil> I heard about it (rather positively) but I haven't seen it (except that they put the buttons on the left)
[22:02] <gregoiregentil> ?? la Mac
[22:03] <tommd> gregoiregentil: The application windowing is minimal, very basic stats in upper right part of panel, minimizing leaves just an icon (actually looks like a quick-start button).
[22:04] <tommd> Clicking on the "menu" button will give the buttons on the left and use the _whole_ screen to show what apps are under the current category you selected. Any current app is minimized when you do this.
[22:04] <tommd> So it is anti multi-tasking.
[22:05] <tommd> Though some floating windows are in the base distribution (empathy).
[22:05] <tommd> but you'd only see those when talking with someone.
[22:05] <tommd> In short: this would be really slick with a touch screen. For a mouse its all well and good, but it looks ideal for touch.
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[23:22] <Raedwulf> how does the touch interface on the touchbook work
[23:22] <Raedwulf> ai-os for example
[23:25] <Aard> you touch, and it does things :p
[23:25] <Raedwulf> :D
[23:25] <Raedwulf> ok
[23:26] <Raedwulf> any special gestures
[23:26] <Raedwulf> or just like a mouse that appears where you touch
[23:26] <Raedwulf> e.g. like a touchpad
[23:26] <Raedwulf> but overlayed on the screen
[23:26] <Raedwulf> and goes exactly where you touch
[23:27] <Aard> basically just like a mouse. some applications have some kind of minimalistic gestures
[23:27] <Raedwulf> ah ok
[23:27] <Raedwulf> are these programmable (easily)
[23:27] <Aard> no
[23:27] <Raedwulf> ok, are these hackable then :P
[23:27] <Aard> there's no global gesture stuff
[23:28] <Raedwulf> ok, is it directly embedded into some kernel module, or is it userspace?
[23:28] <Raedwulf> not that it matters, but hehe :P
[23:28] <Aard> userspace, some applicatins have some kind of gesture support everywhere, and obviously do it on the touchbook as well
[23:28] <Raedwulf> oh right no-global duh :P
[23:29] <Aard> if you want global gesture stuff wait for meego ;)
[23:29] <Raedwulf> ok sounds fun
[23:53] * jvs (~jvs@90.146.65.36) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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