Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:15] * Vito_| (~Sysel@94.142.234.1) has joined #touchbook
[0:30] <Corsac> hmhm, how do I access bootscreen, it's not just touching the screen when the red aios screen appears?
[0:32] <MatthiasF> Corsac: I think you have to push AIOS button right after you power it on
[0:32] <Corsac> ok, thanks :)
[0:33] <MatthiasF> you have to time it precisely so it gets registered
[0:36] <Corsac> hmhm and to charge the top battery the tb has to be running, iirc?
[0:36] <MatthiasF> I think so
[0:40] <Corsac> hmhm, weird, the ???open issue??? page says that android wifi is supposed to work when run from aios, but androids replies ???unable to start wifi???
[0:40] <Corsac> though maybe it has to be started and connected from aios :)
[0:40] <MatthiasF> maybe if wifi is started from AIOS, android is already connected without having to start anything ?
[0:41] <MatthiasF> in a normal chroot, you only need to copy /etc/resolv.conf to have networking in the guest
[0:41] <Corsac> yep
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[0:47] <Corsac> ok so it doesn't charge at all
[0:48] <Corsac> even when plugged...
[0:48] <Corsac> (the top part)
[0:48] <MatthiasF> how do you know ?
[0:48] <Corsac> because if I unplug the tablet, it shuts down immediately :)
[0:48] <Corsac> (from the keyboard)
[0:49] * _koen_ (~x0115699@nat/ti/x-ltydxthufimxdine) has joined #touchbook
[0:49] <MatthiasF> maybe it just take long :)
[0:51] * EiNSTeiN_ (~einstein@unaffiliated/einstein/x-615171) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:52] <Corsac> hmhm, autorotation in aios doesn't work either
[1:17] * phcoder (~phcoder@public-docking-hg-4-209.ethz.ch) has joined #touchbook
[1:32] <Dmrg> Corsac: check the value of /sys/class/power_supply/twl4030_bci_battery/voltage_now, if is not greater than 40000 (or 4000, i dont recall exactly) is not charging
[1:32] <MatthiasF> 2010.09 has a charge indicator, is it working ?
[1:38] <Corsac> Dmrg: will check
[1:39] <Corsac> 3839 :/
[1:40] <Corsac> uevent says it's charging, though
[1:40] <Corsac> but capacity is at 50 and doesn't change
[1:41] <Dmrg> capacity is wrong, doesnt work
[1:41] <Dmrg> the only reliable thing there is the voltage
[1:48] <Corsac> ok
[1:49] <Corsac> I'll let it charge powered on during the weekend
[1:51] <Dmrg> in my experience, the battery discharges even with the ac adapter plugged, once the charge is complete
[2:41] * Marex (vasum7am@u-pl15.ms.mff.cuni.cz) has joined #touchbook
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[3:20] * pitillo (~pitillo@unaffiliated/pitillo) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:20] * pitillo (~pitillo@84.123.96.129.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #touchbook
[3:25] * ioO (~ioo@ip-132.net-89-2-174.rev.numericable.fr) has joined #touchbook
[3:25] <ioO> hi
[3:28] <ioO> Order are still processed within 2 months ?
[3:36] <Corsac> who knows?
[3:45] * phcoder (~phcoder@public-docking-hg-4-209.ethz.ch) has joined #touchbook
[4:12] <MatthiasF> ioO: IIRC, production will start in october. given the preorder backlog and high demand for a small production capability, an order placed now will probably be shipped next year. AI commited to be more transparent regarding production in the future
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[4:34] <FIN_Master> Corsac: I installed the 2010-09 again now with another computer but android still doesnt work :S
[4:34] <FIN_Master> Android logo keeps blinking in the screen but nothing happens
[4:38] <leinir> holy crap, the ai launcher is slooooow...
[4:38] * leinir would love to see plasma-netbook on the thing...
[4:38] <MatthiasF> startup time or switching pages ?
[4:39] <leinir> switching pages
[4:39] <MatthiasF> each time ? or only the first time ?
[4:39] <leinir> the sliding animation is dead slow
[4:40] <leinir> maybe 5-6 fps
[4:40] * EiN_ (~einstein@216.252.79.37) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:40] <MatthiasF> even between two loaded pages ?
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[4:40] <leinir> Yeah
[4:40] <MatthiasF> TBv1 ?
[4:40] <MatthiasF> of course :)
[4:40] <leinir> Yup
[4:40] <leinir> early adopter ;)
[4:41] <leinir> so it's also the 256 meg version ;)
[4:41] <MatthiasF> swapping would be much worse than 5-6 fps :)
[4:41] <FIN_Master> It was really nice to live on the edge and have this marvelous thing called touchbook back then
[4:42] <MatthiasF> it still on the edge :)
[4:42] <FIN_Master> so it would be nice if us v1 owners could really use the aios
[4:43] <MatthiasF> ai-launcher is more useful for the MID than the tablet anyway :)
[4:44] <leinir> Well, personally i'd much rather see a launcher/desktop system like Maemo5's one...
[4:45] <MatthiasF> but it will animation will work better when so manage to compile Qt with SGX acceleration
[4:45] <leinir> *nods* Definitely :)
[4:45] <leinir> i assume it uses the Qt animation framework to do the magic? :)
[4:45] <MatthiasF> it use QML
[4:46] <MatthiasF> you can tweak it in /usr/share/ai-launcher
[4:46] <leinir> Nicely :)
[4:46] <leinir> Then yes, sgx is going to make it fly :)
[4:46] <MatthiasF> tell me if you manage to improve it :)
[4:47] <MatthiasF> but if it's reliably slow, it seems the problem is rendering and not caching
[4:47] <leinir> Hehe, i likely won't at the moment ;)
[4:47] <leinir> *nods* Yup, very consistently laggy :)
[4:47] <leinir> But yup, if it's qml then the sgx-powered backend should do the trick :)
[4:47] <leinir> Of course, i'd ask again, how's that meego comin' on? ;)
[4:48] <MatthiasF> I don't think it's critical priority right now :)
[4:48] * MMlosh (~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:c4bc:7ea6:1882:c46) Quit (Quit: Bye...)
[4:48] <leinir> Aw... and here was me hoping to be one of the guys who'd be able to show it off at the meego conf ;)
[4:49] <MatthiasF> you'll have to find the time to install it yourself :)
[4:49] <leinir> Hehe, yeah - time's not really something i've got too much of at the moment ;)
[4:50] <MatthiasF> I'd do it but I think I should try to focus more on one project instead of trying to do everything :)
[4:50] <MatthiasF> I have to go, I'll be back in 4hr
[4:51] <leinir> Well, meego /is/ everything!111eleventyone ;)
[4:51] <leinir> See ya! :)
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[5:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> hmmm gregoire gentil is still not there
[5:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe there are some other distro on touchbook that knows where to find the xrandr -o 1 capable xf86-video-fbdev patch
[5:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> ?
[5:53] <Mrkva> GNUtoo|laptop: yeah, I'm stuck on that too
[5:53] <Mrkva> GNUtoo|laptop: isn't that patch in git? :)
[5:53] <GNUtoo|laptop> he wanted to publish the patch "soon"
[5:53] <GNUtoo|laptop> no
[5:53] <GNUtoo|laptop> I looked and didn't found it
[5:54] <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe I should look harder
[5:54] <GNUtoo|laptop> but xf86-video-fbdev 1.4.1 seemed the stockone
[5:54] <GNUtoo|laptop> *stock one
[5:54] * MMlosh (~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:3d31:cdf1:6c63:d615) has joined #touchbook
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> I also wonder what the /sys/class/graphics do
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> and how they can be used
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> because I've that on many devices
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> msmfb
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> omapfb
[5:55] <GNUtoo|laptop> etc...
[5:56] * MMlosh (~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:3d31:cdf1:6c63:d615) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:57] <GNUtoo|laptop> PREFERRED_VERSION_xf86-video-fbdev = "0.4.1" comes from: http://git.alwaysinnovating.com/cgit.cgi/ai.openembedded.dev/tree/conf/distro/aios.conf
[5:58] <GNUtoo|laptop> then:
[5:58] <GNUtoo|laptop> http://git.alwaysinnovating.com/cgit.cgi/ai.openembedded.dev/tree/recipes/xorg-driver/xf86-video-fbdev_0.4.1.bb
[5:58] <GNUtoo|laptop> I see no patch at all
[5:58] <GNUtoo|laptop> Mrkva, ^^^
[5:58] * MMlosh (~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:8d79:7b38:827b:cbe2) has joined #touchbook
[5:59] <Mrkva> I'm trying o glue hinge right now (so I can't check it), but is AIOS really using fbdev?
[5:59] <GNUtoo|laptop> I think so
[6:00] <GNUtoo|laptop> the glue thing is here:
[6:00] <GNUtoo|laptop> http://git.alwaysinnovating.com/cgit.cgi/ai.tools/tree/ai-daemon/rotation.sh
[6:02] <Mrkva> GNUtoo|laptop: I'd try omapfb driver at first
[6:03] <FIN_Master> Is there any way to install .apk packages in android
[6:03] <FIN_Master> I didnt find any file explorer or terminal
[6:03] <GNUtoo|laptop> I don't know how to rotate omapfb either
[6:03] <GNUtoo|laptop> FIN_Master, maybe with adb install ?
[6:08] * mongrelcat (~taylorh@c-71-58-26-136.hsd1.de.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[6:14] <GNUtoo|laptop> hmmm interesting
[6:14] <GNUtoo|laptop> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/xserver-xorg-video-fbdev/
[6:14] <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe they got some patches too
[6:16] <FIN_Master> GNUtoo|laptop, there must be the default installer in android but no way to see the files. And it also doesnt work with hotswap so no wifi
[6:17] <GNUtoo|laptop> FIN_Master, ?
[6:17] <GNUtoo|laptop> 1) you've got an android GUI installer?
[6:17] <GNUtoo|laptop> 2) you've got an hostapd router?
[6:18] <FIN_Master> 1) doesnt android have its own gui installer?? I have a htc phone so I assumed there is a default one
[6:19] <GNUtoo|laptop> 1) it should be the market or another thing like apktor or something like that
[6:19] <GNUtoo|laptop> market is proprietary and not redistributable
[6:19] <GNUtoo|laptop> but there are some free replacements
[6:19] <GNUtoo|laptop> so for now try adb install /path/to/package
[6:19] <GNUtoo|laptop> from a computer
[6:20] <sipa1024> i believe there is a built-in mechanism for installing apk's
[6:20] <FIN_Master> But how to get into the apk file without a file explorer :)
[6:20] <sipa1024> install a file explorer :p
[6:25] <FIN_Master> Why didnt I realize that immediately !
[6:26] <sipa1024> but if you download an .apk file in the browser, isn't the default action to install it?
[6:28] * sipa1024 checks
[6:29] <sipa1024> yup, works
[6:30] <FIN_Master> but with no connection :S
[6:30] <FIN_Master> can i refer to local files in browser?
[6:30] <FIN_Master> Cant check myself right now :S
[6:30] <sipa1024> no connection?
[6:31] <sipa1024> not even wifi?
[6:31] <sipa1024> i believe the default browser doesn't support file:/// urls
[6:31] <FIN_Master> I can only start android from boot screen and wifi doesnt work that way
[6:31] <sipa1024> ic
[6:31] <FIN_Master> hotswap freezes the android
[6:33] <sipa1024> it works!
[6:34] <sipa1024> (on my htc hero)
[6:34] <sipa1024> you can't browse local directories using the browser, but typing a file:/// url to an .apk file allows you to install it
[6:35] <sipa1024> i downloaded connectbot.apk from their website, placed it in download/cb.apk on the sdcard, and pointed the browser to file:///sdcard/download/cb.apk
[6:35] <FIN_Master> ill have to try with tb as soon as I can
[6:43] <FIN_Master> Actually there IS a terminal emulator in Dev Tools
[6:43] <FIN_Master> so that way I should be able to install packages
[6:46] <Mrkva> the question is why would anyone use this intentionally crippled system
[6:50] <GNUtoo|laptop> Mrkva, I'll try the "fbdev" that support rotation soon
[6:50] <GNUtoo|laptop> s/that/driver that
[6:50] <GNUtoo|laptop> s/driver/xorg plugin
[6:51] <Mrkva> GNUtoo|laptop: where you've found it finally?
[6:51] <GNUtoo|laptop> at maemo repository
[6:51] <GNUtoo|laptop> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/xserver-xorg-video-fbdev/
[6:51] <GNUtoo|laptop> the filenames makes think that it contain no patches but that's not true
[6:51] <GNUtoo|laptop> it's highly modified
[6:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> unfortunately I have:
[6:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> ./configure: line 11073: syntax error near unexpected token `RANDR,'
[6:52] <GNUtoo|laptop> ./configure: line 11073: `XORG_DRIVER_CHECK_EXT(RANDR, randrproto)'
[7:09] * phcoder (~phcoder@gprs41.swisscom-mobile.ch) has joined #touchbook
[7:16] <MatthiasF> leinir: I'm already back. do you go to the conference as a speaker ?
[7:17] <leinir> MatthiasF: well, i applied as a speaker, but i wasn't accepted, at least in the first round
[7:18] <MatthiasF> what did you propose ?
[7:22] <leinir> One talk about Gluon (the game construction and distribution system i'm involved with), and one about feedback (actually suggested by texrat, but with me and one other as cochairs) :)
[7:25] * alextisserant (~alextisse@c-76-21-41-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[7:29] <MatthiasF> leinir would love to see plasma-netbook << I have a Gentoo/KDE overlay and IIRC it ran plasma-desktop, so plasma-netbook should work
[7:30] <leinir> That is good to hear :)
[7:31] <leinir> Not really fond of gentoo myself, but nifty none the less :)
[7:31] <MatthiasF> but personally I'm not convinced KDE is the good choice
[7:31] * _koen_ (~x0115699@nat/ti/x-ltydxthufimxdine) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:31] <MatthiasF> Not really fond of gentoo myself << you know any other distro with uptodate crosscompilable recipes for KDE and its deps ?
[7:34] <MatthiasF> which launcher you like the most. plasma-netbook, maemo5 or meego ?
[7:36] <leinir> Personally i'm mostly an opensuse guy these days, and for that you've got obs :)
[7:36] <leinir> (well, that, and so many other things, as they're being all nice and open with obs ;) )
[7:37] <leinir> i've yet to try the meego one, but i'm very fond of maemo5's one on handset-sized devices, though on tablets i think plasma-netbook (without auto-hiding panel) is nicer :)
[7:37] <MatthiasF> nicer than ai-launcher ? :`(
[7:38] <leinir> i'm afraid so - really because it's a complete solution and not just a launcher :)
[7:38] <MatthiasF> but if you consider only the launcher widget
[7:39] * phcoder (~phcoder@gprs41.swisscom-mobile.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[7:39] <leinir> Oh just the launcher? Well then i guess i quite like au-launcher... but again, i've not tried meego's one, so i couldn't really comment on that one :)
[7:40] <MatthiasF> are you involved with other projects ?
[7:41] <leinir> Well, my hostmask probably gives away that i'm with amarok :)
[7:41] <MatthiasF> I was wondering if it's still the case :)
[7:41] <leinir> But other than that, it's gluon as a team member, meego as a user/enthusiast/non-coding contributor, and employee of h i v e 01 (the people behind opendesktop.org) :)
[7:41] <leinir> It is :)
[7:42] <leinir> Less than what it has been, but yeah, i'm there :)
[7:42] <MatthiasF> I don't use amarok since I'm part of this strange category of users who get repelled by large programs (seriously running MySQL and plasma to hear music !)
[7:43] <leinir> *giggles* You hit the nail on the head there, actually - amarok is not just hearing music, that you can use ogg123 for ;)
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[7:43] <leinir> amarok is for rediscovering your music ;)
[7:43] <leinir> It's more than a slogan, you see, it's what we do :)
[7:44] <leinir> But yes, it's an important point anyway - if that's not what you're after, then amarok isn't for you :)
[7:44] <leinir> For you there's things like JuK :)
[7:44] <MatthiasF> that's why I said I'm not the right public for amarok, I already know my music :)
[7:45] <leinir> Oh, but do you, now? ;)
[7:45] <leinir> i used to think i did too ;)
[7:46] <MatthiasF> I also didn't like JuK. and since "one is best helped by himself" (that doesn't sound english) I made my own player using Qt + ffmpeg :)
[7:50] <leinir> *giggles* Nice :)
[7:50] <leinir> YANIHMP? ;)
[7:50] <MatthiasF> I don't know this particular acronym but I recognize the NIH in it :P
[7:51] <leinir> Yet Another NIH Music Player ;)
[7:51] <MatthiasF> I couldn't found any other using only Qt and ffmpeg :)
[7:54] <MatthiasF> either they use gstreamer (I boycott glib) or some obscure decoder limited to one or two formats.
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[8:01] <MatthiasF> leinir: I wonder how meego wants to look opensource when they each UX is first developed behind doors ?
[8:02] <dpb> It's more opensource than Android.
[8:02] <MatthiasF> I agree :)
[8:02] <MatthiasF> but Android is not really a reference
[8:02] <MatthiasF> I mean, a reference for openness
[8:03] <dpb> sure it is, it's being sold as an open source system
[8:03] <MatthiasF> [citation needed]
[8:03] <dpb> This isn't wikipedia.
[8:03] * tommd (~Thomas_Du@65-102-41-181.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #touchbook
[8:04] <MatthiasF> dpb: I mean I never heard of Android being sold as opensource
[8:04] <leinir> MatthiasF: Well, put it this way - there's a guy in there who has been hired specifically to kick everybody in the nads whenever they're not being properly open ;)
[8:05] <leinir> One of his pet peeves is the Big Reveal mentality going around in in particular intel and nokia (you may notice that the IVI UX is being developed in the open)
[8:05] <MatthiasF> leinir: nice ! but AFAIK tablet UX is closed
[8:05] <leinir> Carsten "Stskeeps" Munk :)
[8:06] <leinir> Yes, for now - but that is the big reveal thing
[8:06] <leinir> Once they've got something more ready, it'll all be opened up (like the netbook and handset UXes)
[8:06] <mongrelcat> that's what apple does with most of their big open source contribs
[8:07] <MatthiasF> so they're open but they still want to keep their technical advantage :)
[8:07] <mongrelcat> and honestly i have no problem with doing it that way
[8:07] <mongrelcat> no, they develop it in secret and then open it on release
[8:07] <MatthiasF> mongrelcat: yes, it's the WebKit scheme
[8:07] <mongrelcat> like lldb and most of llvm and clang
[8:07] <dpb> and tons of other opensource software
[8:08] <dpb> even private developers do it
[8:08] <MatthiasF> mongrelcat: AFAIK llvm was not started by apple. and they only released WebKit because they had too
[8:08] <leinir> oh yeah, anything which happens in meego but isn't meego software (so mods to xorg and whatever) has to happen upstream
[8:09] <mongrelcat> it wasn't, but they contribute huge chunks of it now
[8:09] <leinir> That's a rule of contributing to meego - as little meego specific code as absolutely possible, everything is upstream
[8:09] <mongrelcat> and they do some standard stuff, but they do lots of it in big chunks
[8:09] * alextisserant (~alextisse@c-76-21-41-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: alextisserant)
[8:30] * GNUtoo|laptop will try meego soon
[8:30] <GNUtoo|laptop> and he hopes that it doesn't really need non-free 3d drivers
[8:30] <MatthiasF> OMAP SGX needs non-free drivers
[8:31] <MatthiasF> maybe it runs slowly using only the ARM chip
[8:31] <leinir> Well, it needs 3d drivers... so if you're running it on the touchbook, you will be doing non-free i guess
[8:31] <MatthiasF> but the netbook UX is not heavily animated, is it ?
[8:31] <GNUtoo|laptop> I mean can it be compiled or worked out to remove the 3d effects
[8:32] <MatthiasF> the whole thing is based on clutter
[8:32] <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
[8:32] <leinir> the legacy stuff at any rate
[8:32] * GNUtoo|laptop wikipedias clutter to have more details
[8:32] <GNUtoo|laptop> but clutter is gtk right?
[8:32] <leinir> well no
[8:32] <MatthiasF> I think it only support openGL
[8:32] <MatthiasF> unlike Qt's graphicview ;)
[8:33] <leinir> it's more like clutter is to gtk what Qt's graphicsview to QtGUI :)
[8:33] <leinir> or, maybe QML is to QtGUI :)
[8:33] <GNUtoo|laptop> ouch ok
[8:34] <leinir> But that's only the netbook UX, all the other ones are being built on Qt Quick :)
[8:34] <leinir> It's just that the netbook ux is basically mostly moblin's ui, which was clutter based :)
[8:35] <MatthiasF> but Clutter use openGL and not gtk whereas QGraphicView reuse Qt graphic stack (and the heavily optimized software renderer)
[8:35] <MatthiasF> so Qt > Clutter+GTK
[8:35] <leinir> Well, gtk never really had that kind of a drawing surface :)
[8:35] <leinir> So understandibly they went and reinvented the wheel, because they couldn't easily go and say "Yeah, alright, we fucked up so badly it can't be fixed. Use Qt." ;)
[8:36] <leinir> Even though that, of course, is the reality of it ;)
[8:36] * leinir ducks flying shoes and stuff ;)
[8:36] <MatthiasF> gtk has cairo which can use opengl, no ?
[8:36] * paulk_ (~paulk@lib33-1-82-233-88-171.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #touchbook
[8:36] <MatthiasF> I'm not familar with the g* side :)
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[8:40] <GNUtoo|laptop> lol meego 1.0 has only xterm
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[8:41] * GNUtoo|laptop returns bitbaking SHR
[8:42] <leinir> GNUtoo|laptop: 1.0 is also not the most recent ;)
[8:42] <GNUtoo|laptop> I know but it was easier to get
[8:42] <GNUtoo|laptop> a wget and it's there
[8:42] <GNUtoo|laptop> the other one
[8:42] <GNUtoo|laptop> need the product key etc...
[8:43] <MatthiasF> product key ?
[8:43] <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
[8:43] <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll show
[8:43] <GNUtoo|laptop> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php
[8:43] <GNUtoo|laptop> and that's only for kickstartfile
[8:43] <leinir> well, that's because you're getting the one for the n900
[8:44] <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
[8:44] <Knirch> mmm, kickstart, now I want to dig up my old amiga
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[8:51] <FIN_Master> any idea how i can mount usb-stick in Android
[8:52] <FIN_Master> I need that F**n file explorer installed :)
[8:55] <Corsac> alextisserant: so, did you play hanoi's tower yesterday?
[8:55] <Corsac> (make it ???tower of hanoi??? :)
[8:57] <alextisserant> I didn't but I know one who did and love it ;)
[8:59] <FIN_Master> alextisserant: Should the hotswap to Android work with tb v1?
[8:59] <Corsac> :)
[8:59] <Corsac> FIN_Master: it worked for me using fresh install and command line
[8:59] <Corsac> not with the UI
[8:59] <Corsac> FIN_Master: run /usr/share/ai-multios/nativeos.sh -a
[8:59] <Corsac> as root
[9:00] <FIN_Master> I reinstalled a couple of times already and no luck with command line
[9:00] <FIN_Master> android works fine when booted
[9:00] <FIN_Master> meaning booted from the multios boot
[9:00] <FIN_Master> but no wifi that way
[9:01] <FIN_Master> Corsac: How did you install 2010-09?
[9:03] <Corsac> using ./install-sd.sh -a -o .
[9:03] <Corsac> something like that
[9:03] <FIN_Master> so in other linux?
[9:04] <Corsac> yes
[9:04] <Corsac> and tbh I don't have any wifi where my touchbook is, so I wasn't able to test it even in the chroot
[9:05] <Corsac> alextisserant: grmbl, the wikipedia page on tower of hanoi is way too interesting and time consuming :)
[9:07] <FIN_Master> Corsac: When did you install? Could there be some difference in the files
[9:21] <Corsac> yesterday
[9:22] <tommd> FIN_Master: The wiki calls out wifi on Android as a known issue
[9:22] <tommd> And it says you must insmod in Ubuntu manually.
[9:24] <FIN_Master> tommd: I know about the wifi, but no choice for me with android
[9:24] <FIN_Master> maybe another reinstall will fix it..
[9:24] <tommd> huh? If it says it doesn't work on a correct install then why do you expect a reinstall to fix it?
[9:26] <FIN_Master> :S You should read my posts. The hotswap from aios to android doesnt work for me. If it worked, i would get a working wifi
[9:28] <tommd> huh, ok then :-)
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[11:13] <churl> which file from http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/release/latest/ do i want to use for a new SD card? Also, will following the directions on http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Reinstall_OS#How_do_I_reinstall_the_system_on_my_Touch_Book.3F still work?
[11:15] <alextisserant> yes to your 2nd question
[11:15] <alextisserant> to know which file to use, please read the reinstall instructions on http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Reinstall_OS
[11:28] <FIN_Master> Yet another reinstall and again starting android with nativeos.sh -a fails
[11:29] <FIN_Master> Theres two lines disturbing me: 1)mount:cannot allocate memory 2) Can't open display : 1
[11:29] <FIN_Master> alextisserant: Any idea what I should try
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[11:30] <alextisserant> when you say it fails, what does exactly happen?
[11:30] <alextisserant> what is your output in the terminal?
[11:31] <churl> Yesterday I followed the directions "on linux", and it took about an hour to get the AIOS desktop loaded.
[11:31] <FIN_Master> first that error 1 above, the those "stopping..." and *** forcing rotation 0 and last error 2 above
[11:32] <churl> I'm sorry, an hour from power on to reach the desktop after the install
[11:34] <MatthiasF> churl: the first AIOS boot needs to configure packages and take longer than usual
[11:36] <churl> MatthiasF: but after that, under an hour I'm guessing :)
[11:38] <MatthiasF> it takes one hour even after the first boot ?
[11:38] <tommd> No, I think he was making a joke.
[11:38] <MatthiasF> ok
[11:39] <FIN_Master> alextisserant: And when I try again without rebootin aios theres: ERROR: Module bufferclass_ti does not exist in /proc/modules and after that: chroot: cannot execute /init: No such file or directory
[11:39] <churl> MatthiasF: I will let you know
[11:41] <tommd> booting AIOS I get "mount : mounting non on /root failed: Invalid argument" "switch_root: bad newroot /root" "Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!"
[11:41] <tommd> Not that I use AIOS, but found that odd
[11:51] <alextisserant> tommd: sounds like your ai-os-dev.squashfs is not copied on your sd card
[11:51] <alextisserant> FIN_Master: which board rev do you have?
[11:52] <FIN_Master> alextisserant: AI Rev.B1
[11:52] <alextisserant> so RAM 256
[11:52] <FIN_Master> yes
[11:52] <FIN_Master> unmodified
[11:53] <martinh> alextisserant: that happened to me. I had to hack the 2010.09a install-sd.sh to make it work.
[11:54] <alextisserant> martinh: to solve the FIN_master's issue?
[11:54] <martinh> no. tommd's missing ai-os-dev.squashfs
[11:54] <alextisserant> yes, it's fixed now: the install-sd.sh on the release folder is good
[11:55] <alextisserant> but you *must* add the -a option in the command line
[11:55] <alextisserant> (see reinstall instructions on the wiki)
[11:55] <martinh> yesterday it wasn't. :->
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[11:59] <FIN_Master> alextisserant: i think Corsac said before that he has the first version of tb and hes runnig android
[11:59] <tommd> Ahh, ok then. Figured it was something simple.
[12:00] <tommd> Assumed the installer would copy that - I was lazy and used the installer for the first time - not bad.
[12:02] <martinh> yea. needs a bit of care and feeding.
[12:03] <alextisserant> FIN_Master: yes, I don't see any reason why it should not work, actually
[12:07] <FIN_Master> Ive reinstalled many times so it shouldnt be the install
[12:07] <FIN_Master> everything else works fine
[12:08] <FIN_Master> but its weird if its the hardware
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[12:50] <Mrkva> alextisserant: are there a schematics of the keyboard pat of the old TB available? I'm trying t figre out what P8 is...
[12:53] <alextisserant> it's of no use actually
[12:54] <Mrkva> alextisserant: ie not connected to anything at all?
[12:56] <alextisserant> it was used to program the firmware for the battery
[12:57] <Mrkva> ah, great! so another toy to play with
[12:57] <Mrkva> just after I fix the top batterry
[12:58] <alextisserant> btw, for the top battery: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Tablet_battery_charging_fix
[12:59] <Mrkva> alextisserant: I've already have there some wire going through the 40pin connector
[13:00] <alextisserant> and it still does not charge even when the DC is plugged directly into the tablet?
[13:01] <Mrkva> alextisserant: that is the thing I'm trying right now - but it looks like it hadn't charged when connected with keyboard part
[13:02] <Mrkva> well, the fact is that I had to remove the battery so I might have damaged it
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[13:07] <Mrkva> alextisserant: sorry for the fuss, it looks like its working.
[13:07] * leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[13:08] <alextisserant> :)
[13:11] <FIN_Master> If I had that working android, could I actually Do anything with it?
[13:12] <FIN_Master> Sorry about the spamming but im pretty excited about android these days :D
[13:13] <MatthiasF> Personnally, I find Android quite limited. Also it's not opensource
[13:13] <sipa1024> not entirely
[13:14] <FIN_Master> It has its things but its usable
[13:14] <FIN_Master> at least in a phone
[13:14] <sipa1024> like?
[13:25] <FIN_Master> like?
[13:27] <Mrkva> lol
[13:27] <FIN_Master> I like.
[13:27] <MatthiasF> I think he asked about the "things"
[13:28] <FIN_Master> One "thing" about android is flash. And thats a big thing :)
[13:28] <mervaka> so what does that -a option do?
[13:29] <FIN_Master> mervaka: in where?
[13:29] <MatthiasF> I completely agree with AI on flash :)
[13:29] <mervaka> in the install-sd.sh
[13:30] <Mrkva> I'm quite sad AI hadn't tried to make a tiny distribution to fit into nand :(
[13:30] <FIN_Master> mervaka: from the script comments: # -a: advanced developer editions
[13:31] <MatthiasF> Mrkva: that would be cool, but I don't see why it should be a priority for AI ?
[13:31] <MatthiasF> Mrkva: did you progress on this ?
[13:31] <mervaka> hm
[13:31] <mervaka> coming back to my tb after a few months.
[13:31] <mervaka> getting 09 installed, i also got a kernel panic
[13:32] <mervaka> unfortunately this low level stuff isnt my thing :/
[13:32] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: well, I've found what screwed my filesystem now twice
[13:32] <Mrkva> :D
[13:32] <mervaka> unless of course you're talking embedded.
[13:33] <MatthiasF> Mrkva: you're using X11 ?
[13:34] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: of course. what else?
[13:34] <Mrkva> the sad thing is I'll have to move back to glibc - there are just too many issues with uclibc...
[13:34] <FIN_Master> mervaka: that -a only changes ai-os.squashfs to ai-os-dev.squashfs in installation
[13:35] <mervaka> oh
[13:35] <MatthiasF> Mrkva: what else? << it depends which apps you want to run :)
[13:35] <mervaka> bugger.
[13:36] <MatthiasF> there are just too many issues with uclibc... << I think I had warned you on this :). but it's always good to experience things by oneself
[13:36] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: yeah, of course, you can have busybox, irssi, elinks and all the console stuff. but that sucks - especially on touchscreen device
[13:36] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: yeah, and thanks for the warning :)
[13:37] <MatthiasF> Mrkva: X11 is not the only display server
[13:37] <MatthiasF> if you're using Qt only, you can use QWS (i.e Qt/Embedded)
[13:38] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: or directfb
[13:38] <MatthiasF> and if this is more a long term project, Wayland is a good design, it only needs to be developed
[13:38] <MatthiasF> directfb supports SGX accel ?
[13:38] <Mrkva> i guess no
[13:39] <MatthiasF> Qt/Embedded does
[13:39] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: the problem with these alternative solutions is they are not quite tested. so there are tons of bugs everywhere
[13:40] <MatthiasF> it depends if you want quick result or a solid software stack :)
[13:40] <MatthiasF> but IMHO X11 is not designed for desktop and even less for embedded
[13:41] <MatthiasF> QWS is stable. but you may want to run non-Qt apps ?
[13:42] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: well, Qt is said to be quite memory hungry :)
[13:43] <MatthiasF> that's a lie !
[13:43] <MatthiasF> it's probably the same person who say C++ is bloated :P
[13:44] * leinir_ is now known as leinir
[13:45] <MatthiasF> and if it allows you to bypass X11, you're saving much more
[13:46] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: well, the problem is when you need one GTK app - you
[13:46] <MatthiasF> I'm doing a minimal Qt system. but since I'm interested in long-term result I'm going to use Wayland.
[13:46] <Mrkva> you
[13:46] <Mrkva> dammit
[13:46] <Mrkva> you're simply screwed
[13:46] <MatthiasF> that's the problem
[13:46] <MatthiasF> but I think you will have to accept some tradeoff to fit your system in NAND
[13:47] <MatthiasF> with a browser, a media player, a pdf reader and a chat client. I think you can cover 90% of TB usage
[13:48] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: yeah
[13:48] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: about that Wayland - isn't there a prblem with any apps requiring X?
[13:48] <MatthiasF> Wayland can host an X server in a window
[13:48] <MatthiasF> for legacy X11 apps
[13:49] <MatthiasF> the normal way will be toolkit support (Qt and GTK are supported)
[13:49] <MatthiasF> the problem I have with wayland right now is it's only supported on intel and amd hardware
[13:49] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: yeah, but you need to run a full-blown X server - so the advantages are gone
[13:50] <MatthiasF> you can run a tiny X server instead of Xorg. but of course it's only for compatibility
[13:50] <MatthiasF> but non-Qt non-GTK X11 apps are not really common
[13:50] <Mrkva> MatthiasF: something like TinyX/Kdrive?
[13:50] <MatthiasF> yes
[13:51] <MatthiasF> if you're interested in using QWS in your nand, I can help you
[13:52] <Mrkva> I will probably go back to the planning stage - I realy have to reconsider some things
[13:52] <Mrkva> And I have to try running KDE4 on touchbook :D
[13:53] <MatthiasF> do you read the forum ?
[13:54] <Mrkva> almost no
[13:54] <Mrkva> I guess some have already tried it
[13:55] <MatthiasF> I have a gentoo overlay to crosscompile KDE
[13:56] <MatthiasF> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=7301#p7301
[13:56] <mervaka> okay so i got 09.a working
[13:56] <mervaka> is the interface supposed to be shit slow compared to how i remember it? :/
[13:57] <mervaka> or is that just chromium
[13:57] <MatthiasF> maybe your memory forgot the bad things :)
[13:58] <mervaka> midori seems to run better
[13:58] <mervaka> hm
[13:58] <mervaka> maybe the time's write to pick up the app i was writing :)
[13:59] <mervaka> right*
[13:59] <MatthiasF> you're writing a browser ?
[13:59] <mervaka> nah
[14:00] <mervaka> just an app that basically maps gtk controls to OSC output
[14:00] <mervaka> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mixforge/
[14:00] <mervaka> hasnt come very far as of late :/
[14:00] <mervaka> my programming skills are somewhat lacklustre these days
[14:01] <mervaka> i need to write widgets for gtk
[14:01] <mervaka> but i cant :<
[14:02] <mervaka> widgets do already exist for what i want, but not with python bindings
[14:02] <mervaka> and widget wrapping seems like yet another dark art
[14:03] <MatthiasF> I really can't help. Gtk and python are really the last technologies I would use :P
[14:03] <mervaka> heh
[14:03] <mervaka> fair enough
[14:04] <mervaka> i do admit i'd rather use something lower level, but the most i've ever taken C is in an 8051 or PIC environment
[14:05] <MatthiasF> If I were you, I'd use QML :)
[14:05] <MatthiasF> since it's javascript you have high-level scriptable UI
[14:05] <MatthiasF> and you only needs to program the backend in C++
[14:05] <mervaka> cool
[14:06] <mervaka> well the backend is minimal
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[14:06] <mervaka> i just hook GUI signals up to an OSC library
[14:07] <mervaka> however, it also builds the entire GUI from some bespoke XML
[14:08] <mervaka> so QML might not be what i'm after? :/
[14:08] <MatthiasF> you can either build the GUI from QML
[14:10] <MatthiasF> or use QML's XmlModel
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[14:17] <mervaka> ah cool
[14:18] <MatthiasF> but I don't see why it would be better to script using XML ?
[14:18] <mervaka> well the tags aren't GUI centric
[14:18] <mervaka> as such
[14:18] <mervaka> they're like knob, fader, LED etc
[14:18] <mervaka> every object has an OSC address etc
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[14:19] <mervaka> so gui is just one half of what makes up the object
[14:19] <sipa1024> 22:31:22 < FIN_Master> One "thing" about android is flash. And thats a big thing :) --> the fact that it supports it, or the fact that it doesn't do it well?
[14:19] <MatthiasF> mervaka: you're using by choice or it's a used standard for OSC guis ?
[14:20] <mervaka> its something i've made up myself
[14:20] <mervaka> its the basis of the program
[14:20] <MatthiasF> then you could as well directly model the gui in QML
[14:20] <MatthiasF> it's only a syntactic change
[14:20] <mervaka> an XML derived language that makes up a control surface
[14:21] <MatthiasF> but using an XmlModel should be easy too
[14:21] <mervaka> ok
[14:23] <mervaka> bbl
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